I sat down with legal expert Ilya Shapiro to learn more about today’s threats to the rule of law in America. He shares his perspective on why the Trump conviction sets a dangerous precedent that undermines our system of justice. Ilya offers a thorough explanation of why legal rulings from courts are often in tension with the political choices of voters. His upcoming book, "Lawless," outlines how our elite institutions have miseducated the de facto ruling class in America, producing “leaders” who are illiberal and ignorant, or even contemptuous, of our constitutional system. We discuss why colleges, universities, and law schools lost their way, his experience being canceled at Georgetown, and the values that form the foundation of our legal system.
Follow Ilya on X (Twitter): https://x.com/ishapiro
Read Ilya’s work on Substack: https://ilyashapiro.substack.com/
Pre-order a copy of “Lawless”: https://a.co/d/96p6AkR
Outline:
[0:00] The Trump conviction is a travesty of justice
[8:21] Our societal trust and understanding is broken
[13:23] Soviet-style “justice” or rule of law?
[20:29] Which questions should be left to voters?
[25:43] How Trump could appeal his conviction
[28:58] What is the “rule of law”?
[38:22] The U.S. is not a democracy
[45:08] American elites have been miseducated
[57:03] Bureaucracy and ideology are ruining education
[1:05:52] The “consumerization” of higher education
[1:11:16] The New Deal broke the Constitution
[1:16:36] The revolutionary politics of the Founding Fathers
[1:20:03] Originalism, the spirit of the law, and legal precedent
[1:29:33] Georgetown hired Ilya, then cancelled him
[1:40:20] Intent and impact in the law
[1:46:08] Antisemitism, free speech, and campus policies
[1:51:08] Why should we have hope for the future?
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Legal Expert Ilya Shapiro on Trump Conviction, Our Constitution, and Collapsing Public Trust